Friday, June 05, 2009
More Comments
In response to some idiotic Zionist diversionary post how partioning Palestine was any different than the partition of Pakistan and India
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/05/obama-israel-cairo-speech
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 1:26pm (about 8 hours ago)
I'd be more than happy too talk about the partition:
Partition was seen by the Palestinians as imposing unilateral and intolerable sacrifices on themselves . . . The area of the Jewish state according to the UN plan would actually be larger than that of the proposed Palestinian state (5,500 square miles as compared with 4,500 square miles) at a time when the Jews constituted no more than 35 percent of the population and owned less than 7 percent of the land. Within the proposed Jewish state, Jewish land ownership did not in fact exceed 600 square miles out of the total area of 5,500 square miles. Nearly all the citrus land (equally divided in ownership between Jews and Palestinians), 80 percent of the cereal land (entirely Palestinian-owned), and 40 percent of Palestinian industry would fall within the borders of the proposed Jewish state. Jaffa, the Palestinian state's major port on the Mediterranean, would be altogether cut off from its hinterland, and Gaza would lose its traditional links with the wheatlands of the Negev.
Hundreds of villages would be separated from communal fields and pastures. The Palestinian state would lose direct access both to the Red Sea and to Syria. The economic union between the two states, on which partition had been postulated, was know beforehand to be impracticable. The patchwork of subunits into which partition would divide the country bore little relationship to the human and social realities on the ground.
Khalidi, Walid. Before Their Diaspora: A Photographic History of the Palestinians 1876-1948.Washington DC: Institute For Palestine Studies, 1991.
In response to Berchmans
05 Jun 09, 3:07pm (about 7 hours ago)
umkahlil
.
## What effrontery. To insist that Palestinians recognize the "right" of of European and American Jews to dispossess them. Like these, who forgot to put their make-up on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxt9HwfPwPo ##
.
The link was horrific. Shocking...I hope this is not what young Israelis in general are like ..I hope they were completely drunk and not like that when they get back into uniform. They really think they are about to die. WTF? They seem to live in a parallel world...WTF is the news there like? No wonder so many Israelis come to CIF ! :)
B
The maker of the video writes:
As a resident of Jerusalem, I can say that the people represented in this video are not members of a fringe group or simply drunk college kids. These people reflect the sentiments shared by many people in this country and this city. These people and their families are the core of the opposition to meaningful peace between Israel and her neighbors. This is what Obama is up against.
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/06/max-blumenthal-feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem-on-eve-of-obamas-cairo-address.html
But really, no more shocking than destroying more than five hundred villages and ethnically cleansing more than half of those who became refugees before any Arab army entered Palestine . . . no more shocking than Petra's pretty, polished propaganda. No more shocking than the hysterical rants of those here who divert from the issue, no more shocking than the majority of Israelis who sneer at Obama's very own words:
"Given our interdependence, any world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will inevitably fail."
No more shocking than denying those people who were born in Palestine and their descendents from stepping foot in their homeland. No more shocking than demonising an entire group. Why do you think a tiny faction of Palestinians engage in violence? Because it is inherent in our nature? Or because of the massive injustice that has been perpetuated on Palestinians? I am not Hamas; I am not Fatah; I am the daughter of a man who had to leave Ramallah in 1951 because his economic prospects were next to nil after Palestine had been truncated in 1948. I would take a bullet before I would acknowledge the "right" of Israel to exist. I am not an extremist. I have the God given right to move freely in the land from which my father and ancestors came, and I will never renounce that right.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 5:14pm (about 5 hours ago)
Another Palestinian protesting the theft of his land killed today:
The slain Palestinian was identified as Yousef Aqel Sadiq Srour, 36, who was shot in the chest with live fire, according to medics at the scene.
http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=38333
And par for the course, the Israelis fired on an ambulance:
A Palestinian ambulance was also fired upon, injuring one of its medics, witnesses said.
http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=38333
In response to Zionist diversion:
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 6:13pm (about 4 hours ago)
I did not say my father was a refugee, but he was a victim of the truncation of his land. Jaffa was a place where many people from Ramallah did business. Once again, the Palestinians are not responsible for what happened to the Jews in Iraq. Many reject the title "refugee," as they were "proud Zionists" who came of their own free will. This is documented in "Hitching A Ride on A Magic Carpet." There were also black ops on the part of the Zionists facilitating the exodus from Iraq. There is no moral equivalence here, but we know that marching orders of Zionists are to mention Jewish refugeees every time Palestine's refugeees are mentioned. This is a bill that came up in the US Congress. Zionism is the root cause of the problem. All else is diversion.
Further Zionists attempts to divert and dissemble and claim that the Palestinians opposed to partition were Nazis (I'm not including their comments):
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 6:44pm (about 3 hours ago)
Petra,
Your claim "and starting in the mid-1920s, the development of the land, exclusively due to Jewish immigrants' efforts (as all historical sources agree) attracted a lot of Arab immigrants" is disgraceful. Any fool can check out the photographs at Palestineremembered.com to disprove your disingenous and egregious denial of the Palestinian presence on the land. And anyone may leaf through the photos of numerous books including Before Their Diaspora by Walid Khalidi to see the Palestinian farmers, potters, businessmen, etc. who were thriving prior to the European Jewish immigration. We were not primitives, but had a well developed agrarian and cosmopolitan society.
The Mufti is another diversion; the term Nakba isn't employed because the truncation of Palestine was considered a picnic by Palestinians.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 7:20pm (about 3 hours ago)
I never claimed that my father was a refugee; for the second time a Zionist says I claimed something I didn't say in order to discredit me. Then you make some claim about my father, whom you know nothing about.
And if the Zionists did so well with the land, why don't you read Raja Shehadeh's Palestinian Walks. He does a great job of claiming how the hills around Ramallah were decimated by the people who claim to love the land so much.
You continue to go out of your way to deny Palestinians rights on their own lands. It's really rich that a German immigrant calls me an extremist for insisting that Palestinians have the right to live on their own land. You are the extremist, Petra, bringing up other situations in order to justify Israel's continuing oppression of Palestinians.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 7:34pm (about 2 hours ago)
Typical Zionist tactic, Petra, throwing up a lot of bs in order to mislead.
I said Palestine was an agrarian and cosmopolitan society; where do I mention the fellahin?
I didn't say anything about the Mufti other than throwing him up is another Zionist diversionary tactic, and I didn't say anything about Jews in Arab lands, which has nothing to do with Palestinians, other than some left of their own accord and some left because of Zionist black op operations.
And Petra, destroying hundreds of villages is wrong. And ethnically cleansing a civilian population is wrong. And trying to justify it is also wrong.
Let me quote Salman Abu Sitta's words to Gershon Baskin:
The Palestinians, and most of the world with them, are determined to pursue justice, eradicate racism and Apartheid. Just as South Africa did. They have no intention of disappearing.
Baskin, true friendship should go to the Israelis to help shake them off their collective amnesia about what they have done and are doing to the Palestinians and to advise them that their salvation lies in shedding racism fully and forever. They have to amend their ways, reverse ethnic cleansing and make reparations.
For it is clear that the history of Jews will ultimately be marked indelibly, and above all other historical events, by what they have done in Palestine.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 8:13pm (about 2 hours ago)
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story420.html
It's hypocritical for Zionist apologists to hold Palestinians responsible for the actions of one man, considering the alliance made between the Stern Gang and Nazis.
And this really has nothing to do with the ongoing oppression of the Palestinians.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 8:19pm (about 2 hours ago)
Dr. Abu Sitta has a very pragmatic approach.
The Right of Return is Feasible.
http://umkahlil.blogspot.com/2005/06/dr-salman-abu-sitta-right-of-return-is.html
And no, Ehad, Palestinians did not immigrate to Palestine and steal the land and dispossess the people; we were there; Jewish immigrants from all over the world did this. And there are no excuses for what the Zionists did to Palestine and what they continue to do.
I
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/05/obama-israel-cairo-speech
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 1:26pm (about 8 hours ago)
I'd be more than happy too talk about the partition:
Partition was seen by the Palestinians as imposing unilateral and intolerable sacrifices on themselves . . . The area of the Jewish state according to the UN plan would actually be larger than that of the proposed Palestinian state (5,500 square miles as compared with 4,500 square miles) at a time when the Jews constituted no more than 35 percent of the population and owned less than 7 percent of the land. Within the proposed Jewish state, Jewish land ownership did not in fact exceed 600 square miles out of the total area of 5,500 square miles. Nearly all the citrus land (equally divided in ownership between Jews and Palestinians), 80 percent of the cereal land (entirely Palestinian-owned), and 40 percent of Palestinian industry would fall within the borders of the proposed Jewish state. Jaffa, the Palestinian state's major port on the Mediterranean, would be altogether cut off from its hinterland, and Gaza would lose its traditional links with the wheatlands of the Negev.
Hundreds of villages would be separated from communal fields and pastures. The Palestinian state would lose direct access both to the Red Sea and to Syria. The economic union between the two states, on which partition had been postulated, was know beforehand to be impracticable. The patchwork of subunits into which partition would divide the country bore little relationship to the human and social realities on the ground.
Khalidi, Walid. Before Their Diaspora: A Photographic History of the Palestinians 1876-1948.Washington DC: Institute For Palestine Studies, 1991.
In response to Berchmans
05 Jun 09, 3:07pm (about 7 hours ago)
umkahlil
.
## What effrontery. To insist that Palestinians recognize the "right" of of European and American Jews to dispossess them. Like these, who forgot to put their make-up on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxt9HwfPwPo ##
.
The link was horrific. Shocking...I hope this is not what young Israelis in general are like ..I hope they were completely drunk and not like that when they get back into uniform. They really think they are about to die. WTF? They seem to live in a parallel world...WTF is the news there like? No wonder so many Israelis come to CIF ! :)
B
The maker of the video writes:
As a resident of Jerusalem, I can say that the people represented in this video are not members of a fringe group or simply drunk college kids. These people reflect the sentiments shared by many people in this country and this city. These people and their families are the core of the opposition to meaningful peace between Israel and her neighbors. This is what Obama is up against.
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/06/max-blumenthal-feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem-on-eve-of-obamas-cairo-address.html
But really, no more shocking than destroying more than five hundred villages and ethnically cleansing more than half of those who became refugees before any Arab army entered Palestine . . . no more shocking than Petra's pretty, polished propaganda. No more shocking than the hysterical rants of those here who divert from the issue, no more shocking than the majority of Israelis who sneer at Obama's very own words:
"Given our interdependence, any world order that elevates one nation or group of people over another will inevitably fail."
No more shocking than denying those people who were born in Palestine and their descendents from stepping foot in their homeland. No more shocking than demonising an entire group. Why do you think a tiny faction of Palestinians engage in violence? Because it is inherent in our nature? Or because of the massive injustice that has been perpetuated on Palestinians? I am not Hamas; I am not Fatah; I am the daughter of a man who had to leave Ramallah in 1951 because his economic prospects were next to nil after Palestine had been truncated in 1948. I would take a bullet before I would acknowledge the "right" of Israel to exist. I am not an extremist. I have the God given right to move freely in the land from which my father and ancestors came, and I will never renounce that right.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 5:14pm (about 5 hours ago)
Another Palestinian protesting the theft of his land killed today:
The slain Palestinian was identified as Yousef Aqel Sadiq Srour, 36, who was shot in the chest with live fire, according to medics at the scene.
http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=38333
And par for the course, the Israelis fired on an ambulance:
A Palestinian ambulance was also fired upon, injuring one of its medics, witnesses said.
http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=38333
In response to Zionist diversion:
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 6:13pm (about 4 hours ago)
I did not say my father was a refugee, but he was a victim of the truncation of his land. Jaffa was a place where many people from Ramallah did business. Once again, the Palestinians are not responsible for what happened to the Jews in Iraq. Many reject the title "refugee," as they were "proud Zionists" who came of their own free will. This is documented in "Hitching A Ride on A Magic Carpet." There were also black ops on the part of the Zionists facilitating the exodus from Iraq. There is no moral equivalence here, but we know that marching orders of Zionists are to mention Jewish refugeees every time Palestine's refugeees are mentioned. This is a bill that came up in the US Congress. Zionism is the root cause of the problem. All else is diversion.
Further Zionists attempts to divert and dissemble and claim that the Palestinians opposed to partition were Nazis (I'm not including their comments):
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 6:44pm (about 3 hours ago)
Petra,
Your claim "and starting in the mid-1920s, the development of the land, exclusively due to Jewish immigrants' efforts (as all historical sources agree) attracted a lot of Arab immigrants" is disgraceful. Any fool can check out the photographs at Palestineremembered.com to disprove your disingenous and egregious denial of the Palestinian presence on the land. And anyone may leaf through the photos of numerous books including Before Their Diaspora by Walid Khalidi to see the Palestinian farmers, potters, businessmen, etc. who were thriving prior to the European Jewish immigration. We were not primitives, but had a well developed agrarian and cosmopolitan society.
The Mufti is another diversion; the term Nakba isn't employed because the truncation of Palestine was considered a picnic by Palestinians.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 7:20pm (about 3 hours ago)
I never claimed that my father was a refugee; for the second time a Zionist says I claimed something I didn't say in order to discredit me. Then you make some claim about my father, whom you know nothing about.
And if the Zionists did so well with the land, why don't you read Raja Shehadeh's Palestinian Walks. He does a great job of claiming how the hills around Ramallah were decimated by the people who claim to love the land so much.
You continue to go out of your way to deny Palestinians rights on their own lands. It's really rich that a German immigrant calls me an extremist for insisting that Palestinians have the right to live on their own land. You are the extremist, Petra, bringing up other situations in order to justify Israel's continuing oppression of Palestinians.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 7:34pm (about 2 hours ago)
Typical Zionist tactic, Petra, throwing up a lot of bs in order to mislead.
I said Palestine was an agrarian and cosmopolitan society; where do I mention the fellahin?
I didn't say anything about the Mufti other than throwing him up is another Zionist diversionary tactic, and I didn't say anything about Jews in Arab lands, which has nothing to do with Palestinians, other than some left of their own accord and some left because of Zionist black op operations.
And Petra, destroying hundreds of villages is wrong. And ethnically cleansing a civilian population is wrong. And trying to justify it is also wrong.
Let me quote Salman Abu Sitta's words to Gershon Baskin:
The Palestinians, and most of the world with them, are determined to pursue justice, eradicate racism and Apartheid. Just as South Africa did. They have no intention of disappearing.
Baskin, true friendship should go to the Israelis to help shake them off their collective amnesia about what they have done and are doing to the Palestinians and to advise them that their salvation lies in shedding racism fully and forever. They have to amend their ways, reverse ethnic cleansing and make reparations.
For it is clear that the history of Jews will ultimately be marked indelibly, and above all other historical events, by what they have done in Palestine.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 8:13pm (about 2 hours ago)
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story420.html
It's hypocritical for Zionist apologists to hold Palestinians responsible for the actions of one man, considering the alliance made between the Stern Gang and Nazis.
And this really has nothing to do with the ongoing oppression of the Palestinians.
umkahlil
05 Jun 09, 8:19pm (about 2 hours ago)
Dr. Abu Sitta has a very pragmatic approach.
The Right of Return is Feasible.
http://umkahlil.blogspot.com/2005/06/dr-salman-abu-sitta-right-of-return-is.html
And no, Ehad, Palestinians did not immigrate to Palestine and steal the land and dispossess the people; we were there; Jewish immigrants from all over the world did this. And there are no excuses for what the Zionists did to Palestine and what they continue to do.
I
